Interview with Sven and Mariela van Slijpe - Hickory Junior
Introduction by Wil de Veer
Personally, I find it very special to do an interview with Sven van Slijpe. He is the son of Mr. Max van Slijpe of Old Hickory Kennel, a well-known breeder, exhibitor and honorary member of the breed club. During the many kennel visits and Am Staff activities with Max and his wife Steffie, I often met Sven when he was still a young boy. It will surely do Max, who is certainly watching from above, a lot of good to see that Sven has started a kennel of his own and has continued the family tradition.
Please introduce yourself and your partner to the members of the ASTCH.
We are Mariela and Sven. We have been living together since 2000 in Marbella in the south of Spain. Mariela and I met during the period when Mariela was working at a law firm and I, together with my business partner, was in the process of starting my own real estate agency. Mariela originally comes from Argentina and until the year 2000 I lived in Bemelen, South Limburg. I still go there regularly. I am still active in real estate and for the past few years Mariela has also been working in our company.
What is your kennel name and why did you choose that name? Is there also a co-owner of the kennel and if so, please introduce him or her as well.
Hickory Junior is “our” kennel name. Of course it made sense that I wanted to use the name Hickory in some form. Junior was added because I am the younger version of Max, my father. At first I wanted to transfer the kennel name Old Hickory into my name, but on second thought I decided, at least for now, to start with Hickory Junior as my own kennel name, which is currently registered in my name only.
Where is the kennel located?
The kennel is located at our home address in Fuengirola in the municipality of Malaga. This is in the south of Spain and it is exactly 2215 kilometres south of my parental home in Bemelen, the place where the original Old Hickory Kennel of Max and Steffie was located.
What was your first American Staffordshire Terrier?
It would be more accurate to say which one was our first Amstaff. That was the male General Grand of Deofol. We are talking about the year 1987. “Grandy” was bred by the founder of our breed club, Henk Stelwagen. He was definitely not a dog for beginners. He had quite a fiery character.
For Mariela, the first contact with an Amstaff was “Old Hickory Miss Helena”, also known as Eva. A dog with a fiery character as well. The first months were truly a challenge for Mariela. On top of that, she had a preconceived idea of the breed. Over time, once Mariela understood how these dogs were put together and how to deal with them, she too became devoted to this beautiful breed.
When did you decide to continue your father’s kennel?
Not long after Max passed away. It must have been late 2015 or early 2016. It was not really a firm decision, but more the result of a series of events. You have to understand that I grew up with this breed and saw up close how intensive the life of a hobby breeder can be. That is why I always said to myself and to my parents: never me! Mariela had always wanted a dog. Since I knew how much time and attention this involves, I had always tried to keep that idea at a distance.
My father passed away on 8 February 2015, while on 31 January 2015 our last official Old Hickory litter had been born. You can imagine that my father’s passing was an emotional time for us, especially for me. But “meat is weak”, and yes indeed, Steffie and Mariela managed to convince me to take one of the puppies from that final litter with me to Spain, the bitch Old Hickory Miss Helena. This was also around the moment I took over my father’s Facebook account.
I had always despised social media up until 2015. But after my father passed away, I began to use his account more and more. Purely and only for the dog or dogs. Back then I would occasionally post a photo of Eva. Until suddenly a well-known handler asked if she could take Eva to shows in Portugal. That was the moment the genie was out of the bottle. Although Eva was one of my greatest loves, she recently passed away, I was very well aware that she did not meet the breed standard in the way I personally would have liked to see. That is how one thing led to another.
How many dogs do you currently have in the kennel? Have you also placed dogs?
At the moment we have ten dogs in our kennel here in Spain. Sometimes a few less and sometimes a few more. Yes, several dogs have indeed been placed, but experience has taught me that once dogs are placed, the focus on them becomes different, meaning less, than when they remain in your own kennel.
Do you always have your own stud dog in the kennel and if so, can he also be used by other breeders?
There is one male in my kennel. The starting point is more show dog than stud dog. With my last five matings I have consistently used males from other kennels. That of course has advantages, but very certainly disadvantages as well. The major advantage is that you can broaden the gene pool within your own kennel, but one disadvantage is that you may run into surprises regarding genetic characteristics from certain bloodlines of dogs you knew little or nothing about. With a bit of bad luck, two steps forward and three steps back.
Naturally, males from my kennel can be used by other breeders. In practice this rarely happens. Perhaps because I myself am a bit too transparent and very critical regarding the weaker points of the particular stud dog.
Do you keep the dogs outside in kennels or inside the house?
During the day the dogs are outside in the kennels. We bring them inside in the afternoon to eat. Then they go back outside and in the evening when they go to sleep they come back inside to spend the night there. I am not a supporter of leaving the dogs in a kennel for too long. Personally, I think this breed is no longer suited to that. I believe that evolution has made our breed mentally more sensitive. When I think back to our breed in the early years in the Netherlands and compare the characters back then with the average Amstaff shown at exhibitions nowadays, it sometimes seems as if we are talking about two different types of dogs in terms of character.
How do you see your breeding program as a breeder, in other words where do you want to go?
Very simple: I think every breeder ultimately wants to breed a dog that conforms 100% to the breed standard. Whether that is achievable for me, for us? The future will tell.
Do you also use frozen semen?
I do not prefer it, but sometimes you simply cannot avoid it. In addition, frozen semen is a solution for maintaining genetic variation in a positive balance in the future, and in this way we can, to a certain extent, safeguard the healthy genotype and of course phenotype of our breed. Assuming that the frozen semen comes from healthy dogs and also closely matches the breed standard.
With which dog did you start breeding yourself?
The first combination we did was with Old Hickory Miss Royana, Mandy, and the Spanish male Osorio de Cans Juansa. We had very high expectations of that combination. In the end, almost everything that could go wrong during a whelping went wrong and unfortunately we ended up with only one puppy from that combination. And as fate would have it, genetics were such that this puppy inherited the least strong qualities of both parents. So we learned it all the hard way!
Do you work together with other breeders at home or abroad?
Working together is the only way to success. Of course there are degrees to the way in which and when you work together, and under which terms and agreements.
Do you maintain close contact with Dutch and or foreign breeders?
Certainly, I do have regular contact with breeders abroad and of course in the Netherlands. Apart from the fact that I enjoy discussing this breed in all its aspects, close friendships have also developed with several breeders.
What do you think of the relationship between Dutch breeders? Could it be better?
From the outside, I think, well actually I know for sure, that relations between Dutch breeders are not always ideal. But then again, in which country are they? Of course it could be better. Will that happen? I do not think so. Most breeders I know in the Netherlands also have completely different visions from one another, and then things quickly come to a halt when there are not enough points of connection.
How many litters have you bred?
Do I have to count, Wil? Let’s see. If we take 2016 as the starting year, on average two to three litters a year. We are now in 2024, so I think around twenty litters. What I do know is that three per year is an absolute maximum. People often do not realize how much energy it takes to put together a solid combination and then also deliver it properly. Ideally I prefer a maximum of one or two combinations per year. Personally, I am of the opinion that with fewer combinations it is more difficult to maintain a good, successful and qualitative breeding and show program with a vision.
How do you socialize the puppies?
As standard by spending as much time as possible with the puppies. Inviting neighborhood children, letting them discover the house and the garden together with the adult dogs, and so on. The form of socialization I enjoy most myself is walking along the boulevard with a handcart full of puppies. The perfect combination when it comes to socialization. The puppies are in their own safe bubble, the handcart, and therefore have the time and opportunity to calmly take in their surroundings. During that walk we are constantly approached by different people, with or without dogs, who then make contact with the puppies. We enjoy it, the puppies enjoy it, and the surroundings love it. It often makes me think back to the years when my father and Steffie took their puppies to the terrace of their favorite restaurant or café. A wonderful afternoon for everyone.
At what age do the puppies go to their new owner?
The age varies between eight and twelve weeks. I was raised with the idea that the earlier the better, and I often saw puppies leave for their new owner at seven to eight weeks. Over the years, however, I have changed my opinion and I think around ten weeks is an optimal age for me and for the puppies. Of course those few extra weeks mean a lot of hard work, but I believe that when the socialization process is handled properly, those extra weeks can benefit the dog’s socialization, particularly with regard to other dogs. In addition, it has the extra advantage for me that I can postpone my own pick of the litter. The longer you can delay that decision, the less chance you have of making the wrong choice.
Ultimately, I breed purely for myself and the fact that I can make prospective owners happy with a puppy is of course a wonderful extra for which I am very grateful. Without these new owners it would be impossible for me to practice this beautiful hobby.
Do you offer any form of guarantee with the puppies, for example show quality or with genetic abnormalities?
Offering a puppy as show quality is pointless. I think the correct qualification should be very promising if the impression is that the puppy may do very well at shows in the future. You naturally always have a certain idea of the direction a puppy may take in terms of quality, but on the other hand I have seen the most beautiful puppies grow into average adult dogs, and the other way around as well. And genetic abnormalities? Always possible, but fortunately I have little experience with that. But I will at all times take that puppy back and or find a satisfactory solution in consultation with the new owner.
Do you sell with a purchase contract? Does it happen that there is an obligation in it for a certain puppy to be sterilized?
I have never drawn up a written purchase contract and as long as this is not legally required I will not do so quickly. Because of my father’s legal background and the fact that I have been working in real estate for almost 25 years, signed contracts were spoon-fed to me. Practical experience shows that there must always be more than enough mutual trust between me as breeder and the new owner. If that trust is not there, the puppy will stay with us. So far, a contract has never come up. Naturally, certain points are agreed upon verbally. Up to this very day that has always proved to be more than sufficient.
To add something to that: I experienced from close by that my father had new owners sign contracts relating to stud rights, neutering, sterilization and so on, and when it eventually came down to it and he wanted to use a particular dog for breeding, it turned out that the dog in question had been neutered. This did not happen once, but several times. So what is the use of a signed contract? The damage has already been done and does it then make sense to challenge it legally? Not for me, in any case. I prefer to use my energy positively and if things do not work out, then I made a misjudgment. So be it.
Let’s say that 99% of my puppies grow up with true breed lovers. People who normally do not intend to breed. So mandatory sterilization is not relevant in that case. Castration is something else. As a rule, with promising puppies I ask the new owners whether, if the dog turns out to have certain qualities, I may use the dog later in my breeding program. With a bitch this is much more sensitive. Since my dogs grow up as house dogs, I find it objectionable to ask the new owners to make their bitch available for my breeding program. The mere thought of such a dog being taken out of its comfortable family situation for several months, or worse, something going wrong during whelping, means that with a bitch I will never impose conditions.
What do you feed the puppies and what do you feed the adult dogs? Do you add supplements?
As standard I feed puppies Proplan, especially the Optiderma version. Not because it is a premium-quality kibble, but because after thorough research I am convinced that for my dogs it is the optimal kibble to grow up on. I believe that this kibble has the exact carbohydrate-to-protein ratio. In the past, at home, a strong emphasis was placed on protein for the puppies, but honestly I have moved away from that. Our breed simply grows too fast to work with a high dosage of top-quality proteins at a young age. The frame, the bones, simply are not strong enough yet, and I have seen these puppies literally and figuratively grow crooked.
The adult dogs, on the other hand, are almost all on different diets. To put it very simply: just as with us humans, every dog is unique, and therefore in my view every dog also has a slightly different need for nutrients and the ratios between them. The most used kibble in my kennel is Proplan, followed by Optimanova. Supplements are indeed used, depending on the needs of the individual dog. Supplements to promote flexibility, stimulate pigmentation, support the immune system, and so on.
What do you consider your most memorable success at a dog show and with which dog was that?
In 2016, at my very first show with Old Hickory Miss Elena. This was in Portugal. A simple local CAC show. I travelled all the way to Portugal alone, my first show on my own at the age of 46. Showing the dog myself and winning Best of Breed, and then in my joy not knowing who to call first. Wonderful! I think I called Steffie first, then Mariela. After that, Mariela and I were of course able to achieve wonderful results all across Europe. We are obviously very grateful for that.
How many champions have you bred?
Maybe 50! But all joking aside. I know exactly what you mean. How many dogs have I managed to title through showing? I think you can count them on two hands, Wil. The main reason is that I do not have the drive to keep pushing my dogs toward that coveted title over and over again. The latest example is our bitch Hickory Junior Lady Gitana. She could have had her champion title a year ago already. The only thing missing at the time was the French equivalent of a MAG test. I was 100% sure she would pass that test with flying colors, but physically I simply did not have the time or energy to actually schedule it.
Of course as an exhibitor you are proud of all the titles your dogs have won, because in the end that is what we go to shows for. But I prefer to keep things in perspective. If it were up to Mariela, we would be at a show somewhere every weekend. A champion title is nice, but for me it says nothing about the quality of the dog. I simply see far too many dogs that are unworthy of that title, and I do not want to fall into the trap of being blinded by titles. I recently rehomed a beautiful dog that already held a hard-to-get Spanish JCH title at only eleven months old. As the dog grew up, I felt that it was not sufficiently representative of our breed, which is why I decided to remove it from the show circuit. Even though I am convinced that an all-round judge would place this type of dog on the podium every time. So what is the value of a title for such a dog in the end? For me, not much at all.
Do you think dog shows and or judges influence the breed?
Absolutely. This is where it starts. As soon as a judge places an atypical dog that does not conform to the breed standard, uninformed exhibitors and breeders will generally strive to show or breed a dog like that. It is essential that judges know the breed standard of the dogs they judge and then also apply that knowledge when judging and placing them. This is one of the reasons why I now only very rarely show dogs under non-specialist judges. Here too, exceptions aside.
Do you have ambitions to become a judge yourself? If so, would you follow the course in Spain or in the Netherlands?
Absolutely. It is one of the tools to preserve this beautiful breed in its original form. It is one of the many ways to pass on your knowledge to others. The downside of being a judge is that you can never do everything right. Naturally you cannot make everyone happy at a show. In the end, only one person goes home fully satisfied. But what you can do as a judge is to inspire new people, pass on your knowledge, and act as a mentor to those who are open to it.
And since you ask, I have already taken my first steps in the Netherlands. The entire process might have been easier if I had started the education in Spain, but I think, no, I know for sure, that the quality of training in the Netherlands is many times higher than in many other countries around us.
Are you involved in any other activities with your dogs besides showing them at exhibitions?
Much as I would like to, Wil, I simply do not have the time for it. I must say, however, that Mariela tries to be active every week, every Sunday or Saturday, with one of our dogs at a dog school specialized in training working dogs. I admire the people involved in other activities such as flyball, agility and dock diving. Honestly, that seems at least as enjoyable to me as beauty shows, but I have now chosen this route and for the time being I will try to devote myself to it fully.
Do you always show the dogs yourselves?
Nowadays we do. In the beginning we made use of handlers, but nothing is better than a good connection between dog and handler, and in our case that is Mariela. I am constantly amazed at how she makes time every single day to train each show dog individually. Of course, if we go to a show and two of our kennel dogs have to enter the ring at the same time, we will use a handler. I myself will only enter the ring with a dog in an emergency. Where Mariela always manages to get the best out of the dog, I usually do the exact opposite.
Do you and or Mariela also act as handlers for others, and if so for which breeds?
Mariela is occasionally asked to show other dogs. She does it with pleasure, and in the past it has led to some hilarious moments. For example, she once went Best in Show with a Podenco Ibicenco. While she was standing on the honor podium, the village mayor asked her what breed had won the show. Her clueless look alone was, for me, worth a Best in Show.
Do you see problems in the breed concerning temperament, aggression and or clearly recurring health problems?
I got to know the Amstaff in the late 1980s as a breed that would literally and figuratively go straight through a wall. Nowadays I think that the majority of Amstaffs would turn around the moment they saw a wall. In the past we rarely saw the vet, and I do not remember skin problems at all. Of course not everything was perfect. On the other hand, we did have occasional cases of Ataxia. Hardly any testing was done on hips and elbows, and the general knowledge regarding canine welfare was not at the level it is today. All in all, I think we have improved in terms of health. In terms of character, I think we have gone backwards.
In what order do you rank the following in importance, or do you think some parts are not important: type, temperament, soundness, balance, color, show quality?
Let us first put them in order of importance. First of all, type. Without that, we do not have an Amstaff, but just an ordinary dog. Next comes one of the typical characteristics of our breed: the corresponding temperament. That temperament should be part of a dog bred with soundness as a foundation. The dog should then be in harmony and balance as a whole, and it would be wonderful if the dog also possessed show quality, while color should be entirely subordinate to all of the above.
How do you see the future of the breed in Spain and in the Netherlands?
Gloom and doom! Those are actually the first two words that come to mind. But let me not be too negative. First of all, let us establish that cynology as a whole is having a difficult time these days. It is becoming increasingly difficult for us breeders to practice our hobby in a pleasant way because of government regulations. I find it harder and harder to understand the rules imposed on us nationally, whether this is in the Netherlands or in Spain. Of course I understand very well why these rules are created, but in the end it is the well-intentioned hobby breeder who pays the price.
As for the breed itself: judges and breeders are the people who should be leading the way in preserving our breed according to the breed standard. I see that the lovers of the type of Amstaff as I envision it are unfortunately becoming fewer and fewer. Take a photo of an Amstaff from the early years of our breed and compare it to what is more often shown today. Often they are two completely different types of dogs that have little or nothing to do with each other anymore.
Do you prefer a certain color, and a male or a female?
For me it matters little what color it is. I say little because I personally do have a slight preference for brindle, and if that comes together with a sharp white marking then that is the ultimate for me. As long as the color is intense, with deep pigment, it matters little to me. Scientifically I cannot support it, but I am also of the opinion that well-pigmented dogs are often less prone to skin problems. A nice side note: a well-known horse breeder once said to me, Sven, a good horse has no color!
What is the most beautiful Am Staff you have seen in real life in the Netherlands, and which one abroad?
My finest and most beautiful memories are of the dogs my parents Max and Steffie had. I had the absolute privilege of seeing my father and Steffie import the most beautiful dogs from the USA. It is difficult for me to say which was the most beautiful because nowadays I look at dogs with completely different eyes than I did when I was still a teenager. But dogs such as Sindelar’s Gock of Max and Absolute Wild of Texas, as well as some Tipits Z Hanky dogs, were a joy to look at, and not to forget Benmars Roadhouse of Montana.
The most beautiful Amstaff abroad? Here too I could name several. One of the most beautiful bitches I have seen, and even had the privilege to judge in Sweepstakes at the National Specialty 2022 in the USA, is the bitch Giselle. She is now a veteran, but this bitch is exactly how I like to see a bitch. Elegance at its finest. Not perfect, as no dog is perfect, but for me very little would need to be adjusted in this dog to come close to that perfection.
Do you have any tips for beginning breeders?
Make sure you find a good mentor. A mentor you can trust 100% and who has already proven themselves. A mentor whom you know has a good, solid foundation regarding the breed and who also has knowledge, patience and a willingness to teach you the secrets of breeding. I have experienced myself that not many experienced breeders want to teach you the finer points of the craft, simply because they are afraid you will surpass them with a better-quality breeding product.
The following old English saying fits quite well here: “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear. When the student is truly ready, the teacher will disappear.” But the most important thing for a novice breeder is that they understand the breed standard 100%. Knowing the breed standard by heart is one thing; truly understanding it, interpreting it correctly and then translating it into a breeding program is something entirely different. A certain scientific basis of knowledge is needed, as well as good common sense.
In the Netherlands we are dealing with warmer summers and higher temperatures. The dogs suffer from this. In Spain this is even more extreme. Do you have any tips on how to deal with the heat so that it remains comfortable for the dogs?
As you may know, we had a very extremely hot summer here in Spain last year, with temperatures reaching almost 40 degrees on a daily basis. Because my dogs are used to warm temperatures, this hardly affected them. I deliberately do not use air conditioning. In the Netherlands, however, the extremes are much greater. Today it is 18 degrees and two days later everyone is struggling under tropical temperatures of 35+ degrees. Naturally, this is a very unhealthy, extreme and uncomfortable situation for both people and animals. The only thing I can say is that there must be sufficient ventilation and fresh air, and in addition enough cool drinking water.
The most important thing is this: the younger the dog, the more careful you have to be with extreme temperatures. I will never forget that one summer I was travelling in the Madrid region in a car with air conditioning. For safety, I had hung several extra thermometers inside the car to monitor the temperature closely. When I saw that, even with the air conditioning running at full blast, the temperature inside the car was climbing toward 30+ degrees, and opening the windows was not an option because outside it was 42+ degrees Celsius and the sun was mercilessly beating down on the car, I felt forced to stop at a gas station and buy all the ice they had in stock. I had to spread that ice throughout the car to keep the temperature somewhat manageable for the dogs. The moral of the story is that during the summer months I will no longer quickly drive long distances during the day in a normal car with dogs inside if the temperatures rise above 35 degrees.
Would you like to see anything changed in the breed standard?
Absolutely not. The standard was written at the time to ensure that our breed would be preserved, with certain characteristics that distinguish it from other breeds. If we want to change that, then we should simply look for another breed. Of course, we must take into account that all living beings are subject to evolution. For us, that is an extra challenge: with breeding, to remain as close as possible to the breed standard.
It is up to us breeders to continually evaluate where we stand with the breed and to adjust our breeding program in such a way that we stay as synchronized as possible with the breed standard. That is why dog shows are indispensable. I am of the opinion that an active, successful breeder should regularly attend dog shows, with or without dogs. This is the only correct and simple way to stay informed about the status of our breed. Staying informed digitally makes little sense. These days so many photos are altered that they are highly unreliable. People sometimes say that the breed standard can be interpreted in several ways. That may be true. But then at the very least make sure that the dog being bred resembles the Amstaff as we knew it in the early years of our breed.
Are you actively involved in the breed club in the Netherlands?
Much as I would like to be, I simply do not currently have the time to play an active role in the breed club in the Netherlands. I do, however, follow developments in the Netherlands very closely, and if I am ever asked to contribute in one way or another, I will always try to do my part.
Are you a member of the breed club in Spain?
Yes, from the very first day that I became active with the dogs. The breed club is an essential part of our hobby.
Are you actively involved in the breed club in Spain?
Not at the moment. Hopefully this will change in the near future. Time will tell. The club here in Spain is currently in the hands of people who have absolutely no idea what the purpose of a breed club is. At the moment we are doing our best to change this situation and we hope to achieve that in the future the Spanish club will once again become a healthy club. In the past this was a club with more than 200 active members, whose members were very successful at the major international shows.
Do you have any tips or remarks for the breed club, Raad van Beheer and or politics?
Regarding politics in dog shows, I can be very brief. In every branch of sport there is some degree of politics. Of course this can be frustrating and demotivating for people who go to shows regularly, but I am fully convinced that when you enter the ring with a dog of truly outstanding quality, you will consistently stand on the podium and, with a little luck, more often take the top prizes. As with many other things in life, the ultimate prizes depend on an enormous number of factors, but the fact remains: without a good dog you will not get far.
As for the Raad van Beheer, I have less to do with it than the average Dutch breeder. But from what I see, this organization comes across to me as solid and well organized, something many Southern European countries could still learn from. And finally the breed club: once again, an absolute must to preserve the breed and its traditions.
Is there anything I have not asked that you would still like to mention?
Wil, we could go on for hours. So many topics to discuss. The beauty of this hobby is that you will never run out of things to talk about. If you approach it in a healthy way, many new friendships lie ahead. You will get to know your dogs better in every aspect and, if shows appeal to you, then with a bit of luck you will even get to see some of the world.
What I would also like to mention is that I greatly enjoy the pleasure Steffie, my mother, gets when I regularly update her on the ups and downs of our dogs. Times have changed and Mariela and I approach the dog world somewhat differently than my father and Steffie did at the time, but broadly speaking I clearly see many similarities. Without Steffie it would have been impossible for my father to achieve all that he did. And here too it is clear that Mariela is the indispensable link in all of this.
On behalf of myself and our readers, thank you very much for this interview.
The feeling is mutual, Wil. We have known each other for many years and who would ever have thought that you of all people would one day be interviewing me about the dogs.